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| This guy would probably rape your sister |
Think about this for a moment before brushing it off or dismissing it entirely. In old school formats the brunt of your characters' experience is gained from living, killing monsters, and accumulating wealth. Sure you might save a princess here or there, or save a village from a mad wizard, but you're also a tomb raider, and a sword for hire. Let's face it, a rag-tag group of adventurers not bound by any sort of overlying story, are mercenaries. They're hired to complete a task, which usually includes killing monsters (and sometimes other humans/elves/dwarves etc), and stealing the shit they've managed to accumulate. Ultimately the character is seeking to get enough power to overthrow that despotic ruler, build a keep, and establish an army, only to eventually become the very despot and tyrant they conquered. Some up-and-coming adventuring party is out there, just as you once were, and they're seeking to overthrow you, conquer your kingdom, and take your shit from you. Because that's what it's all about in the old school.
In old school D&D you are an adventurer, mercenary, grave robber, and a conqueror. As you continue to survive and build a name for yourself, its usually accompanied by fear among the populace, because you accomplish your goals through the blade at your side, or the spells in your spellbook. Your character may be "good" in terms of alignment, but a hero he is not. Survive, kill shit, and steal shit; these are the principles the old school player lives upon. These are the only forces that guide his fate.
You'll get no argument from me. I don't go for that imposed heroism.
ReplyDeleteIn my current 3.x campaign, the players started out with the assumption that just because they were adventurers the people around them would assume they were heroes and treat them positively.
ReplyDeleteAnd, in those places where they behave nobly and render services to the populace that's exactly how they get treated. In other places, where they've either not proved their character, or (more commonly) behaved in typical adventurer fashion, they get treated exactly the way they usually deserve--like a barely-tolerated but necessary nuisance and public health hazard.
I've more or less said the same thing. Nothing stops you from playing heroically in Old School games, or non-heroically in New School games, but they were designed with the assumptions of play you point out well here.
ReplyDeleteIn Adventurer Conqueror King, we take the approach that the activities of the first two stages - being a mercenary and grave robber - are what lead to the third, where you're not necessarily heroic but you do find yourself to be someone with a prominent place in the world, a name level character. The key to the transition is that we make spending, not just getting, gold the essential driver of XP progression. Becoming more powerful is aligned with being a bigger spender, and the things you invest in tie you into the campaign world. And you're spot on that, while that doesn't mean you become a hero, it does mean you're now fighting to protect something - even if it's just your despotic grip on power!
ReplyDelete- Tavis
@Aaron - Yes, I never try to impose it on my players either really. In truth, most of the guys I play with regularly enjoy performing heroic deeds, but in truth, the way these old school games are set up, it makes it difficult to truly be a hero in a game, because your advancement is based on survival, defeating enemies, and stealing treasure. Not exactly the makeup of a noble hero really.
ReplyDelete@Taketoshi - In truth, viewing it somewhat realistically (which may be ridiculous considering this is a fantasy game lol), I think most towns and villages would be somewhat hesitant in their treatment of adventurers, because they usually bring plenty of trouble with them. That's how it usually goes in my games anyway haha. They typically end up causing more trouble than they prevent.
@Lord Gwydion - Yes, with the basic premise being you must survive, defeat monsters, and collect treasure and wealth, at times it is counter-productive to being some sort of epic hero. That is not to say it is impossible, just not always reasonable I think.
@muleabides - I have been following ACKS quite closely over the past few weeks, and I'm glad to see you guys meeting your goals and getting ready to launch this thing. I've heard the economics charts are amazing and I'm looking forward to getting my hands on the game and testing it out. Best of luck with it!
@R.W.:
ReplyDeleteExactly so. I meant more that my players often start out with the belief that they will be treated as heroes by default--a belief I have to disabuse them of routinely by reminding them of how much trouble they cause in relation to how much they stop.
In fact, a town official once had an argument with a player in my current campaign about why the party was being ejected from the town. The party member pointed out that they had just stopped a major menace from killing many and destroying the town--to which the official responded that the PCs were the ones who brought about the crisis in the first place!